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The Old Hack

Story Wednesday August 29, 2018

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Virgin again? Sarah would be glad she's not alone. Although I think with main cast's age, all of them being virgins is getting hard to believe. When we get confirmation someone is NOT virgin? On the other hand ... yes, none of Diane's relationship deserved sex, so it does make sense she was saving that.

And ok, even I understand this being explicitly about sex.

Also, I'm sure those two are wrong. There are plenty of people in usual school who would like to be friends with alpha- ... wait. She said "know well". Ok, she may be right about that. Except in the biblical sense.

... although the part about not being selfless should be even less surprising than the part about sex.

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I wonder if Dan has a design for Nancy?

Diane seems to be all alone in the hallway in the last panel, suggesting maybe that classes have begun. That means that only staff or students with hall passes should be where Diane is. Or maybe hall monitors, although we've never seen any at Moperville South. Who is the staff person Diane would like the least to come upon her in Friday's comic?

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Posted (edited)
42 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

Diane seems to be all alone in the hallway in the last panel, suggesting maybe that classes have begun.

Or it could be symbolic.  It is quite possible to be all alone in a crowd.

42 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

Who is the staff person Diane would like the least to come upon her in Friday's comic?

Obviously the guidance counselor who hands out class schedules to new students.
http://egscomics.com/comic/2007-06-12

I don't think any of the other faculty or staff in that school would provoke an awkweird or worse reaction in Diane right now.

Well... maybe one instructor

Edited by Pharaoh RutinTutin
Useless Detail Added

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Time for something I haven't done in forever: Panel-By-Panel Analysis!

========

Panel 1 and 2: (I thought panel 1 would be bigger and blocked the screen with my hand; turns out it's a thin panel and I saw panel 2 anyway)

Anyway, I thought Diane's reaction in the last page was about those two not recognizing her due to her haircut and outfit. Turns out I was wrong.

And yeah, Diane, there's an unfortunate social connotation that comes with the way you used to dress and your former dating habits. I'm surprised you never thought about it.

Panel 3: More people talking about her without realizing she's right next to them due to her drastic change in haircut and attire. 

Light-haired girl seems to think Susan was Diane. Seems to be a trend here. I can imagine it now. "I have a sister/cousin/whatever!" "Suuuuure you do."

Panel 4: Spiky-haired girl has a low opinion of Diane. To be fair, it's not entirely undeserved, considering how she acted when we met her. Nobody's noticed her character development, it seems.

And light-haired girl does have a point. Spit is surprisingly useless at putting out fires.

Panel 5: Well, light-haired girl has a point. Very few people know the real Diane. She's kept her hidden depths hidden. I think Nanase, Ellen, and Susan might have a better gauge on Diane's real personality than Lucy and even Rhoda, simply because the former three have seen Diane when she's scared and unsure (we don't know if the latter two have) while the latter two have primarily seen Diane when she's being smug or manipulative. The majority of the school sees Diane's manipulative side, and as we've seen here, they've brought up expectations and assumptions.

Most people never bother getting to know most other people. Reputation is usually the only way we know about someone.

Panel 6: Ouch. Low blow, spiky-haired girl. Low blow. Proves my point, huh? Barely anyone knows Diane except by reputation, and her reputation isn't that good, leading to...well, spiky-haired girl's rhetorical question.

Panel 7: And a beat panel to let it sink in.

Commentary: Dan's right. Their planet needs them.

========

Yikes. When you realize your reputation stinks.

Really, this is about the best time for Diane to learn all this stuff. Because of the events at the mall, everyone's talking about her. Because of her haircut, nobody knows they're talking about her behind her back while in front of her face. Two plus two equals a whole lot of eye-opening revelations. (...am I rewriting math or using an overly long variable name?)

Is this sort of the opposite of change blindness? They  assume she can't be Diane because she doesn't look like Diane and they didn't witness the change?

And to slightly misquote something: "They needn't gossip. After all, it's rude to talk about someone who's listening."

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2 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:
3 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

Diane seems to be all alone in the hallway in the last panel, suggesting maybe that classes have begun.

Or it could be symbolic.  It is quite possible to be all alone in a crowd.

Yes. There may be people just outside the panel.

2 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

I don't think any of the other faculty or staff in that school would provoke an awkweird or worse reaction in Diane right now.

Well... maybe one instructor

Adrian Raven is unlikely to be ready and would probably avoid her in situation like this.

2 hours ago, Zorua said:

Light-haired girl seems to think Susan was Diane. Seems to be a trend here. I can imagine it now. "I have a sister/cousin/whatever!" "Suuuuure you do."

Better not say she's her grant-grant-niece. Sister might be suspicious. Cousin sounds like best option.

Susan has watches with blonde hair. They can make some photos or even arrange personal meeting if there would be non-believers.

2 hours ago, Zorua said:

Very few people know the real Diane. She's kept her hidden depths hidden. I think Nanase, Ellen, and Susan might have a better gauge on Diane's real personality than Lucy and even Rhoda, simply because the former three have seen Diane when she's scared and unsure (we don't know if the latter two have) while the latter two have primarily seen Diane when she's being smug or manipulative. The majority of the school sees Diane's manipulative side, and as we've seen here, they've brought up expectations and assumptions.

Yes. During New Year she revealed something noone in school likely saw.

2 hours ago, Zorua said:

Really, this is about the best time for Diane to learn all this stuff. Because of the events at the mall, everyone's talking about her. Because of her haircut, nobody knows they're talking about her behind her back while in front of her face.

Well, I'm not sure if it's best time FOR Diane. She already has lots on her mind.

However, it's definitely the opportunity when it's most logical to happen.

 

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Honestly, none of this really surprises me. The statement in the previous comic that "half the school" had "hit that before" was clearly news to Diane, and these two girls' opinions seem to run along the same lines as Nanase's, as seen in Diane's first appearance

But then, that's not what's important here - what IS important, is Diane discovering what people outside of her inner circle really think about her.

 

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6 minutes ago, AFNB said:

But then, that's not what's important here - what IS important, is Diane discovering what people outside of her inner circle really think about her.

Ya know, Lucy seems to have just barely hiden contempt of Diane, and Rhoda is, well I am not sure what Rhoda is, seems like she is a sub in training, with Diane as her domma. Hardly a good group to draw conclusion from.

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6 minutes ago, mlooney said:

Ya know, Lucy seems to have just barely hiden contempt of Diane, and Rhoda is, well I am not sure what Rhoda is, seems like she is a sub in training, with Diane as her domma. Hardly a good group to draw conclusion from.

I dunno. With Rhoda, we're probably seeing the remnants of her crush on Diane (I had crushes nearly 20 years ago that never fully went away), and frankly, Lucy may just have that attitude with everybody. I don't think we've seen enough of her to really judge (we just had, what, her third appearance? And four lines in it was more than she had in either of the ones before).

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2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Yes. During New Year she revealed something noone in school likely saw.

That there is more to her than is generally known, yes. Mind you, I feel that 'selfless and cool' is setting the bar rather high -- it is possible to not be selfless and still be a quite decent person. I note this because Diane is not selfless and in fact can be rather selfish -- but this is not the same as being solely focused on oneself, as Diane also showed.

I also note that if you have had bad experiences trusting others, it becomes easier to be selfish. I am not ready to condemn Diane on that basis though I do note she has room for some improvement.

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2 hours ago, mlooney said:

Ya know, Lucy seems to have just barely hiden contempt of Diane, and Rhoda is, well I am not sure what Rhoda is, seems like she is a sub in training, with Diane as her domma. Hardly a good group to draw conclusion from.

Lucy's dynamic now might have a lot to do with Diane spending all her time with other people, particularly Nanase-tachi, since New Year's. On New Year's Eve Lucy was showing at least as much concern for Diane as Rhoda's. And maybe Lucy will wind up together with Diane. After all, Nanase and all the Elliot/Ellens that might be available to Diane are spoken for, and Rhoda and Catalina are clearly headed toward an altar or maybe a chuppah.

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Robert Burns wrote

O, wad Pow'r tha Giftie gie us
To see oursel's as others see us

Not necessarily as good as he appears to think.

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If you only read the first two panels with no other context is seems like Diane has just discovered she's a virgin.

 

Re: Lucy's seeming contempt for Diane

I think Lucy knows the school thinks Diane is.... easy. And she's seen no reason to tell Diane. Perhaps even thinking Diane wanted that reputation. And thus the nun crack.

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9 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Virgin again? Sarah would be glad she's not alone. Although I think with main cast's age, all of them being virgins is getting hard to believe. When we get confirmation someone is NOT virgin? On the other hand ... yes, none of Diane's relationship deserved sex, so it does make sense she was saving that.

It's not unusual for high schoolers to be virgins. At least as many of my friends were as weren't.

Moreover, it makes sense for Diane specifically. She's not interested in relationships or sex (at least, she never was before), only in manipulating people into giving her things. Sex would have likely felt too much like a "trade" to her, and thus ruined the power dynamic. Though I am surprised she never realized people would assume she wasn't a virgin.

For most of the others, too, I have no trouble whatsoever believing them to be virgins.

Elliot - his reasons have already been explained.

Sarah - not for lack of trying

Tedd - before he met Grace, of course he was. After Grace...well, living in the same house together with his dad might have made it a little awkward, but I probably would be shocked if they hadn't taken that step by now.

Grace - See above

Nanase - It's been heavily implied that she and Ellen are not.

Ellen - See above

Susan - Of course she is

Justin - Luke is the first chance he's had

Ashley - Who can say? But given that she dated someone as manipulative as Tom, likely not.

 

 

The meta reason of course is likely that Dan is projecting his own experiences/values/preferences onto his characters.

 

1 hour ago, jmucchiello said:

Re: Lucy's seeming contempt for Diane

I think Lucy knows the school thinks Diane is.... easy. And she's seen no reason to tell Diane. Perhaps even thinking Diane wanted that reputation. And thus the nun crack.

Makes sense to me.

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Geez I ended up feeling bad for Diane. In part due to my Asperger’s Syndrome I have my own difficulties with social que, and a lot of social rules seem arbitrary. As a result I ended up taking on the idea of just being myself, not caring about my reputation. This is because those who care about you will care about you will care about you for who you really are, and those who don’t, don’t matter. 

It comes from my DEFAULT. mindset of not seeing the point in pretending that reality is anyway other then it is. What this means is that when I try to relate to others I try to imagine how I would feel in their position. On one hand that’s why I messed up and assumed that Diane didn’t care about her reputation. On the other hand I can easily imagine being hurt and betrayed, when all you want is interpersonal connections.

To give a personal example I wasn’t always (If I even am now) the best judge of character. Once when I was a little kid, I was over in the yard of someone who I, at the time, thought was a friend. He ended up chasing me around this huge field with a board (like a 2x4) with a nail through it. I ended up going up and being scared and telling my mom I never wanted to go back. I didn’t even tell her the specific reason why at that point. It was only OVER TWO DECADES LATER when I ended up talking with my parents about it again. In hindsight I realize that such a person and (another who I don’t want to talk about (let’s just say what he did was less terrifying but just as obvious in hindsight) were never really my friends at all. But I was both so bad with social ques, and wanted friends so badly (and could be a bit of a brat myself back then to be fair) that it took something exteme to wake me up to the reality back then.

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6 hours ago, mlooney said:

Ya know, Lucy seems to have just barely hiden contempt of Diane, and Rhoda is, well I am not sure what Rhoda is, seems like she is a sub in training, with Diane as her domma. Hardly a good group to draw conclusion from.

Having seen Rhoda and Catalina together, Rhoda seems more like the old days when new kinksters had to spend time as subs before they were allowed to try out being a Dom/me.  She certainly seems to be coming into a more dominant role now!  Then again, maybe she's a switch and enjoys playing both roles in turn....

1 hour ago, Illjwamh said:

It's not unusual for high schoolers to be virgins. At least as many of my friends were as weren't.

Moreover, it makes sense for Diane specifically. She's not interested in relationships or sex (at least, she never was before), only in manipulating people into giving her things. Sex would have likely felt too much like a "trade" to her, and thus ruined the power dynamic. Though I am surprised she never realized people would assume she wasn't a virgin.

For most of the others, too, I have no trouble whatsoever believing them to be virgins.

I feel the same.  The cliche may be to lose one's virginity in high school, but the reality is that I knew a fair number of virgins in college, too, and sometimes beyond that.

Quote

Tedd - before he met Grace, of course he was. After Grace...well, living in the same house together with his dad might have made it a little awkward, but I probably would be shocked if they hadn't taken that step by now.

Grace - See above

Most likely they have, if we apply our world's standards, but not absolutely.  Again, I've known couples who went around more than one base without ever hitting that home run until they were married.  Especially with what we know about sen....seyen....ololu.....part-Uryuoms, they value closeness much more than sex.  I can easily picture Grace wanting to snuggle, hug, and even kiss, without feeling the urge to go further. And Tedd, of course, at first would feel lucky for that much, and later he'd know that Grace didn't want it the same way he did, and might not want to make her feel pressured.  (In other words, maybe he was wiser that Second-Life-Ellen in that regard....look what happened to that relationship when she pushed for sex!)

Quote

Nanase - It's been heavily implied that she and Ellen are not.

Ellen - See above

Now this one I suspect is most likely!  After all, Elliot's main reason not to, according to Nanase at least, was "math."  Ellen and Nanase have zero chance of that problem, unless one of them makes a major change.

Quote

Susan - Of course she is

Absolutely.  No "things".  Just watching things.  And we've already debated whether solo is likely so no need to rehash here. ;-)

Quote

Justin - Luke is the first chance he's had

A bit surprising if he's the only "out" boy in his school, that no one else has come to him in private, but not impossible and/or not necessarily leading in that direction if it had.  A pity, because statistically there would be quite a number of LGBTQ+ kids at a school that size.  Heck, in the suburbs any time within the last decade or so, there'd probably be at least one QUILTBAG club!  EGS is showing its age a bit here.  Future kids may (hopefully) not even see such clubs as anything more significant than a chess club or a journalism club, or whatever kinds of clubs non-nerd-school schools have.

Quote

Ashley - Who can say? But given that she dated someone as manipulative as Tom, likely not.

Hmm, I hadn't actually thought that relationship through to that aspect before.  Maybe it's because Ashley still seems so innocent.  But yeah, I could definitely see that as being the reason she was so affected by Bad Tom.

Quote

The meta reason of course is likely that Dan is projecting his own experiences/values/preferences onto his characters.

Makes sense to me.

Fits with my experiences, too.  Whenever I see those statistics about how many teens have sex in high school, I always see the flip side too, that if X percent have had sex, then 100 - X have *not* had sex!

1 hour ago, animalia said:

Geez I ended up feeling bad for Diane. In part due to my Asperger’s Syndrome I have my own difficulties with social que, and a lot of social rules seem arbitrary. 

ADD/ADHD can have similar problems, due to being too distracted to pay attention to social cues.  Interrupting is a classic example.  If you don't notice that people look annoyed when you interupt them, then you're not likely to learn not to interrupt.  And then it's a mystery why people don't want to let you in on their conversations, and it feels like they just exclude you for no good reason.  (And if that makes you all the more determined to be in on the conversation....)

Quote

It comes from my DEFAULT mindset of not seeing the point in pretending that reality is anyway other then it is. What this means is that when I try to relate to others I try to imagine how I would feel in their position.  <snip>

<snip>Once when I was a little kid, I was over in the yard of someone who I, at the time, thought was a friend.

My default tends to be to assume everyone gets along and can be friends, until I get hit with a clue-by-four about it.  Even when I've had problems with someone, I still tend to think, Well, we seem to be getting along now, maybe we can be friends, until something overt happens again.

(Perhaps) Surprisingly often, that turns out well.  :-)

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3 hours ago, animalia said:

Geez I ended up feeling bad for Diane. In part due to my Asperger’s Syndrome I have my own difficulties with social que, and a lot of social rules seem arbitrary. As a result I ended up taking on the idea of just being myself, not caring about my reputation. This is because those who care about you will care about you will care about you for who you really are, and those who don’t, don’t matter. 

It comes from my DEFAULT. mindset of not seeing the point in pretending that reality is anyway other then it is. What this means is that when I try to relate to others I try to imagine how I would feel in their position. On one hand that’s why I messed up and assumed that Diane didn’t care about her reputation. On the other hand I can easily imagine being hurt and betrayed, when all you want is interpersonal connections.

In my experience, those who don't care about you are more likely to intentionally hurt you than those that do (mind you there are exceptions, and those hurt the most, but on average it's better to have people care about you). As a result I'm always concerned about what people think of me, even though I'm never quite sure what the best way to make a good impression is and I usually have no idea how well I'm doing. It's only with certain family members I trust, or online where I have the "mask" of a pseudonym and avatar that I feel I can relax and truly be myself.

(Not that my "real life" persona is a lie, per sey, I just leave a lot of myself out of it, and always try to present myself in what I believe to be the best possible light.)

As for Diane, perhaps it's our perspective as readers (and knowing how Nanase used to think of her), or the fact that I'm used to consciously thinking about social interactions and how I might be perceived, but I'm still quite surprised that Diane didn't expect from the start that her actions would lead to this sort of reputation. Still, like you said, it is easy to imagine what she must be feeling right now. (It reminds me a bit of when I realized the kids in school were divided into those who were indifferent to me and those who disliked me, though I was in first grade at the time not high school, and at least Diane has a few friends/potential-friends to support her.)

...Speaking of Diane's "friends", I hope either Lucy is a better friend than she seems to be or Diane knows better than to expect much support from her, because otherwise Diane is in for an even more painful blow sometime soon...

1 hour ago, CritterKeeper said:

Having seen Rhoda and Catalina together, Rhoda seems more like the old days when new kinksters had to spend time as subs before they were allowed to try out being a Dom/me.  She certainly seems to be coming into a more dominant role now!  Then again, maybe she's a switch and enjoys playing both roles in turn....

That was what I was thinking.

Well, either that or Rhoda was just a bit shy and she's learning to overcome that, particularly around Catalina, but what are the chances of that? ;)

1 hour ago, CritterKeeper said:

A bit surprising if he's the only "out" boy in his school, that no one else has come to him in private, but not impossible and/or not necessarily leading in that direction if it had.  A pity, because statistically there would be quite a number of LGBTQ+ kids at a school that size.  Heck, in the suburbs any time within the last decade or so, there'd probably be at least one QUILTBAG club!  EGS is showing its age a bit here.  Future kids may (hopefully) not even see such clubs as anything more significant than a chess club or a journalism club, or whatever kinds of clubs non-nerd-school schools have.

While EGS may be officially set in 200X, I think a lot of the teen (and pre-teen) character interactions in it are based on Dan's experiences in school in the 90s. So in a sense the comic was dated even before it began.

Then again, I suspect the vast majority of stories about children and teens reflect the childhoods of their authors more than they do children of the era the stories are released in...

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26 minutes ago, ChronosCat said:

In my experience, those who don't care about you are more likely to intentionally hurt you than those that do (mind you there are exceptions, and those hurt the most, but on average it's better to have people care about you). As a result I'm always concerned about what people think of me, even though I'm never quite sure what the best way to make a good impression is and I usually have no idea how well I'm doing. It's only with certain family members I trust, or online where I have the "mask" of a pseudonym and avatar that I feel I can relax and truly be myself.

(Not that my "real life" persona is a lie, per sey, I just leave a lot of myself out of it, and always try to present myself in what I believe to be the best possible light.)

As for Diane, perhaps it's our perspective as readers (and knowing how Nanase used to think of her), or the fact that I'm used to consciously thinking about social interactions and how I might be perceived, but I'm still quite surprised that Diane didn't expect from the start that her actions would lead to this sort of reputation. Still, like you said, it is easy to imagine what she must be feeling right now. (It reminds me a bit of when I realized the kids in school were divided into those who were indifferent to me and those who disliked me, though I was in first grade at the time not high school, and at least Diane has a few friends/potential-friends to support her.)

...Speaking of Diane's "friends", I hope either Lucy is a better friend than she seems to be or Diane knows better than to expect much support from her, because otherwise Diane is in for an even more painful blow sometime soon...

That was what I was thinking.

Well, either that or Rhoda was just a bit shy and she's learning to overcome that, particularly around Catalina, but what are the chances of that? ;)

While EGS may be officially set in 200X, I think a lot of the teen (and pre-teen) character interactions in it are based on Dan's experiences in school in the 90s. So in a sense the comic was dated even before it began.

Then again, I suspect the vast majority of stories about children and teens reflect the childhoods of their authors more than they do children of the era the stories are released in...

Well it’s that if you don’t care what people say about you then all that kind of stuff is water under the bridge, but if you do care what they say about you then it really hurts. For me personally, it’s a choice of wether I’d rather waste time “putting on appearances” for people who don’t me, or if I’d rather just be myself and hope it works out. That being said, since I have trouble imagining how other people feel, as mentioned, my default mode is to imagine how I’d feel in a certain situation. While it’s not perfect, it’s a good starting place, because (as the link explains) it leads to a “treat others as you’d want to be treated” attitude. Wich to be fair wasn’t what Diane was doing either. Speaking of my biggest problem with said early behavior wasn’t the casual dates, or even that she liked it when boys bought stuff for her, but simply that she wasn’t up front about it. As you can tell honesty is kind of a big deal to me. I am not Elliot and Ashley not bring a cookie into the place that forbids it bad, when it comes to following the rules. But I am just as bad at them at lieing.

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2 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:
Quote

Ashley - Who can say? But given that she dated someone as manipulative as Tom, likely not.

Hmm, I hadn't actually thought that relationship through to that aspect before.  Maybe it's because Ashley still seems so innocent.  But yeah, I could definitely see that as being the reason she was so affected by Bad Tom.

I had assumed that was what the sandwich was.

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...somehow, it didn't it me either that Ashley and Bad Tom probably have had sex, but thinking about it, it doesn't really make sense for them not to, or for Bad Tom not to at least have tried to pressure her into it, in his passive-aggressive way.

As for the "shocking revelation," I wouldn't have been surprised either way.  What does surprise me, though, is how unpopular she seems to be with girls whose names don't start with alveolar approximants.  I guess it makes sense, but... darn you, Hughes and Fey!  You've twisted my mind!

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Such snide remarks. And they all see Diane as this one-timer? That has to hurt somehow. But this is a two-way street, so we need to wonder what led to this mess.

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I'm beginning to think that all bystanders were forced to evacuate shortly after Susan killed the snake vampire, because the only rumor about what happened was of someone who looked like Diane killed it, even the newspaper didn't give Sarah anything beyond that, if there was mention of Adrian getting involved in fighting the vampires, or Pandora steppping in, or quotes of what was said afterwards, there'd be more talk of "Diane was said to be that magic woman's granddaughter, and her father looked like a young Mr Raven with pointy ears!", so I don't think there was anyone else around for that bit.

17 minutes ago, Stature said:

Such snide remarks. And they all see Diane as this one-timer? That has to hurt somehow. But this is a two-way street, so we need to wonder what led to this mess.

Well, Diane did exploit them for personal gains and then dumped them when they no longer suited her, of course though, non of the guys would have wanted to let their buddies know that they got nothing out of it so they fabricated the claim that they were able to score with her.

Diane now sees what's happen, but the question remains, how would she clean up that mess? I doubt coming out and saying that she never slept with anyone  would not be easily believed cus I doubt any of the guys would admit that they lied about it.

 

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I wonder if Lucy is going to claim the Queen Bee-atch crown now that Diane is outgrowing it?  She has potential to make Diane's life miserable, if she wants to solidify her position as top of the heap of those who use and insult others to make themselves feel bigger.  And she's already been casually cruel to Rhoda, back when she was mousey and submissive, even though they were supposed "friends"....

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11 hours ago, AFNB said:

But then, that's not what's important here - what IS important, is Diane discovering what people outside of her inner circle really think about her.

People, who are not as polite as Nanase and Ellen who apparently didn't told her.

11 hours ago, AFNB said:

I dunno. With Rhoda, we're probably seeing the remnants of her crush on Diane (I had crushes nearly 20 years ago that never fully went away), and frankly, Lucy may just have that attitude with everybody. I don't think we've seen enough of her to really judge (we just had, what, her third appearance? And four lines in it was more than she had in either of the ones before).

We technically didn't SAW her because it was her avatar but she had quite a lot of lines in Family Tree.

10 hours ago, The Old Hack said:
13 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Yes. During New Year she revealed something noone in school likely saw.

That there is more to her than is generally known, yes. Mind you, I feel that 'selfless and cool' is setting the bar rather high -- it is possible to not be selfless and still be a quite decent person. I note this because Diane is not selfless and in fact can be rather selfish -- but this is not the same as being solely focused on oneself, as Diane also showed.

I also note that if you have had bad experiences trusting others, it becomes easier to be selfish. I am not ready to condemn Diane on that basis though I do note she has room for some improvement.

I wouldn't describe Susan as selfless and she DID actually killed that vampire.

9 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

And maybe Lucy will wind up together with Diane. After all, Nanase and all the Elliot/Ellens that might be available to Diane are spoken for, and Rhoda and Catalina are clearly headed toward an altar or maybe a chuppah.

You forgot Charlotte.

7 hours ago, Illjwamh said:

Moreover, it makes sense for Diane specifically. She's not interested in relationships or sex (at least, she never was before), only in manipulating people into giving her things. Sex would have likely felt too much like a "trade" to her, and thus ruined the power dynamic. Though I am surprised she never realized people would assume she wasn't a virgin.

Yes, I was mentioning that in makes sense for her to be virgin.

7 hours ago, Illjwamh said:

For most of the others, too, I have no trouble whatsoever believing them to be virgins.

Yes, it makes sense if you go over them one by one. But it feels weird together.

5 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

I feel the same.  The cliche may be to lose one's virginity in high school, but the reality is that I knew a fair number of virgins in college, too, and sometimes beyond that.

I wouldn't be surprised if most people who didn't lost virginity in high school remained virgins in college too. It's not like going to college changes that much - most reasons to remain virgin will still be valid.

5 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:
6 hours ago, animalia said:

Geez I ended up feeling bad for Diane. In part due to my Asperger’s Syndrome I have my own difficulties with social que, and a lot of social rules seem arbitrary. 

ADD/ADHD can have similar problems, due to being too distracted to pay attention to social cues.  Interrupting is a classic example.  If you don't notice that people look annoyed when you interupt them, then you're not likely to learn not to interrupt.  And then it's a mystery why people don't want to let you in on their conversations, and it feels like they just exclude you for no good reason.  (And if that makes you all the more determined to be in on the conversation....)

I don't think I need professional diagnose to tell me I'm terrible with social cues.

3 hours ago, ChronosCat said:
5 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

Having seen Rhoda and Catalina together, Rhoda seems more like the old days when new kinksters had to spend time as subs before they were allowed to try out being a Dom/me.  She certainly seems to be coming into a more dominant role now!  Then again, maybe she's a switch and enjoys playing both roles in turn....

That was what I was thinking.

Well, either that or Rhoda was just a bit shy and she's learning to overcome that, particularly around Catalina, but what are the chances of that?

Catalina was shown as sub when with Rhoda, but it seem in contrast with her normal personality. Sure, there is some "dominant outside, sub inside" cliche, but them taking turns makes more sense ...

3 hours ago, ChronosCat said:

Then again, I suspect the vast majority of stories about children and teens reflect the childhoods of their authors more than they do children of the era the stories are released in...

How could they NOT? This is not kind of experience you can get in any other way than live through it ...

6 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

A pity, because statistically there would be quite a number of LGBTQ+ kids at a school that size.

I think that despite Dan's attempts to make the schools big they're not. Remember how Susan had hard time filling her feminist club ... it shouldn't be that hard in that big school. And it definitely isn't only case where events in comics makes more sense if you assume the schools are smaller.

Similarly, there are conflicting clues about the size of DGB. Partially it may be that Dan is not able to create enough background characters, but I think he has problems writing about bigger groups of people in general.

2 hours ago, WR...S said:

...somehow, it didn't it me either that Ashley and Bad Tom probably have had sex, but thinking about it, it doesn't really make sense for them not to, or for Bad Tom not to at least have tried to pressure her into it, in his passive-aggressive way.

... didn't think about it before, but yes ... either they did or his attempts for it was what made her realize what he is. Like, maybe he pushed too much.

17 minutes ago, Scotty said:

I'm beginning to think that all bystanders were forced to evacuate shortly after Susan killed the snake vampire, because the only rumor about what happened was of someone who looked like Diane killed it, even the newspaper didn't give Sarah anything beyond that, if there was mention of Adrian getting involved in fighting the vampires, or Pandora steppping in, or quotes of what was said afterwards, there'd be more talk of "Diane was said to be that magic woman's granddaughter, and her father looked like a young Mr Raven with pointy ears!", so I don't think there was anyone else around for that bit.

Forced? By whom?

There may be not as many bystanders to start with (compared to, say, when Cheerleadra was playing catch with Dame Tara) and it's possible they decided to evacuate on their own, because, well, vampires. Multiple scary vampires.

We see quite a lot of people running away when Adrian is borrowing the sword.

People not recognizing Mr. Raven might be superman effect - they don't EXPECT that old teacher who wears cane sometimes would be young elf - but still seems weird noone mentioned him so far.

Also, apparently DGB confiscated all camera records.

3 hours ago, animalia said:

Speaking of my biggest problem with said early behavior wasn’t the casual dates, or even that she liked it when boys bought stuff for her, but simply that she wasn’t up front about it.

She wasn't up front about it? I don't think she ever lied to them. Granted, she likely wasn't explaining it in detail either, but most of the boys could notice the pattern ... unless the previous dates lied ... hmmm ...

29 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Diane now sees what's happen, but the question remains, how would she clean up that mess? I doubt coming out and saying that she never slept with anyone  would not be easily believed cus I doubt any of the guys would admit that they lied about it.

I don't think her general reputation is recoverable. She can explain to people who care about her, but no way to majority of school.

16 minutes ago, CritterKeeper said:

I wonder if Lucy is going to claim the Queen Bee-atch crown now that Diane is outgrowing it?  She has potential to make Diane's life miserable, if she wants to solidify her position as top of the heap of those who use and insult others to make themselves feel bigger.  And she's already been casually cruel to Rhoda, back when she was mousey and submissive, even though they were supposed "friends"....

Despite her "dress like a nun" comment I don't think she means to be cruel. Of course that doesn't mean she isn't. Rhoda specifically was certainly hurt multiple times, but Diane ... well ... Diane should resist that normally, but now when she lost confidence ... hard to say.

I would actually expect her first reaction would be to try to keep Diane on her place. But failing that, yes she would probably try for the crown herself.

 

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