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The Old Hack

Story Friday April 14, 2017

69 posts in this topic

Hmm, descended from what now? Perhaps the "lie" is the bit about Elves being unable to reproduce, and the reality is that they can breed under certain circumstances? (they apparently can't simply sleep with just any mortal human--either the human needs some particular attribute, or else some certain thing must be done to ensure offspring) By this I mean that all naturally-born Wizards/Affinities would have some fraction of "Fairy" genes in them . . .

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24 minutes ago, ijuin said:

Hmm, descended from what now? Perhaps the "lie" is the bit about Elves being unable to reproduce, and the reality is that they can breed under certain circumstances? (they apparently can't simply sleep with just any mortal human--either the human needs some particular attribute, or else some certain thing must be done to ensure offspring) By this I mean that all naturally-born Wizards/Affinities would have some fraction of "Fairy" genes in them . . .

Given the ease of transformation magic in this setting it is possible they're descended from Uryoums. Though it could be something like "King Abraham" for all I know.

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The fact that we know Mr. Raven is a wizard and we know he's descended from an immortal is evidence for "immortals" being the missing word.

45 minutes ago, ijuin said:

(they apparently can't simply sleep with just any mortal human--either the human needs some particular attribute, or else some certain thing must be done to ensure offspring)

Do we actually know this?  From what I can remember, the only information we've gotten is that Mr. Raven says elves can't have children (and he might be wrong) (or he could be referring to a rule elves have to follow rather than lack of capability).  The only elf we know is Mr. Raven, and we know nothing about his sex life or lack thereof (and of course he could be infertile for other reasons, or have children that he doesn't know about, or for that matter have children that he does know about but have reason to lie about it).

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I feel it became a talk show set all of a sudden.

Of course almost anyone could exclaim so loud it reaches the Moon.

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This is the loudest one yet. The uryuom holding his hands over his ears has the entire Earth between himself and Egypt, which is, of course, on the other side of the planet from the Americas. All the previous shouts were from Moperville, near Chicago. Apparently the "WHAT?!" had to come over the North Pole like a Russian ICBM. Or maybe Santa. How many of you remember actual announcements on TV and radio on Christmas Eve that NORAD was tracking Santa?

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Placing a 50 $Q bet the the missing word is "fairies", of course meaning "Immortals"

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There is a massive amount of non-information in this installment. The Dan is having his way with us. ^_^

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Well well well, this is a huge revelation, if only we knew what they descended from.

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Oh, my... If the word was realy "fairy", could it be that Tedd is Mr. Raven son? An affair would explain why Tedd dad don't like him anymore. Maybe he found them in bed. 

That could also be that the affair was after he was born, and the origin of the other child Not-Tengu talked about.

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Seems like the Orbiting Uryuom was prepared this time, or just lucky he was having a break from what he usually does to listen to some tunes.

 

Just now, Entropy said:

Oh, my... If the word was realy "fairy", could it be that Tedd is Mr. Raven son? An affair would explain why Tedd dad don't like him anymore. Maybe he found the um bed. 

That could also be that the affair was after, and the origin of the other child Not-Tengu talked about.

I have a feeling this is going to play into the truth about Susan and Diane as well, if wizards, seers and people with affinities are descended from Elves. I always felt that there must have been a time when Elves were more common, though it certainly wouldn't be as if there was an entire Elven civilization. Now, this isn't to say that Adrian lied about not being able to have children, it's very possible Pandora once told him that, maybe because she once made it a point to convince herself that it wasn't possible, the question is, when did she? She'd have more reason to tell Adrian that he couldn't have kids after Blaike's death if she didn't want Adrian to have to deal with the pain of outliving any offspring which there's no guarantee that a 1/4 immortal would have the lifespan of a 1/2 immortal.

It is still possible that as Adrian grew up, he might have knocked boots with a human or a few humans (not all at once dangit, one every few years or so) and got them pregnant without knowing it, one of those offspring could have had children of their own and eventually lead to Mr Pompoms who could have been Adrian's great great grandson and Adrian doesn't even know it.

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Posted (edited)

I'm guessing that Dan is avoiding telling us the introductory information about Seers until Tedd hears it as well.  Too bad we can't just look it up in the Seers Catalogue.

As for the primordial ancestor of wizards et al?  I can think of a lot of possibilities, but none of them would seem likely to draw a cry heard in space from Pandora.

But I do like Hecka's parlour.  It would make a great setting when Hecka hosts the next Q&A Sequence with a musical interlude by Steve Martin.

Edited by Pharaoh RutinTutin
spelling

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Posted (edited)

Either the missing word is 'fairy' (or an equivalent like 'elf') or Dan is setting up for one of the biggest misdirections in EGS history.

Wizards and affinities being the result of diluted fairy bloodlines makes sense. They're powerfully magical entities. If their magicalness can be passed on to their offspring, it would stand to reason that further offspring would retain some magicalness. That would explain the family lines of inborn affinities and wizards. Wizards outside of magical linages could be the result of dormant 'genes'* becoming active again, (or magic itself having some fun and obfuscating things with random data points.) 

It would also make sense for why the fairies lied to themselves about that fact. A large number of magical lineages could cause problems with magic reset type stuff. Also it might make for weird and potentially problematic interactions with Fairy Law. They're limited to "Guide and Empower" when dealing with mortals, but Fairy Law is dependent on perception. It's not too much of a stretch to consider wizards and people with affinities to be "not mortal" due to them being technically part fairy.

 

*I put quotes around genes, because I'm not sure if fairy magicalness would be passed on by actual DNA and genetics or by some other, possibly magical mechanism. If it is via actual genetics, then I would guess that affinities are dominant genes, as they're reliably passed down through families, and wizardry is recessive, because wizard linages are fairly rare, and you do have random wizards popping up at times.

Edited by Drasvin
Minor grammar fix

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9 minutes ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

Too bad we can't just look it up in the Seers Catalogue.

2, that is to say two packets in the face.  Get at least one half of a packet up the nose1.

1Rubber hose optional.

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12 minutes ago, Drasvin said:

The missing word is either 'fairy' (or an equivalent like 'elf') or Dan is setting up for one of the biggest misdirections in EGS history.

I didn't think that Andrea approaching Elliot at school was anything more than just a one time gag until Dan revealed there was more to it in "So a Date at the Mall".

His commentary explaining why Grace looked like Susan flip flopped on whether or not there was more to it as well which sparked debates about Adrian possibly being Susan's dad in some convoluted way, my earlier post about it changed the theory such that they could be still related, but it's a more distant relation and based Adrian having been told it couldn't be possible and not being aware that he did in fact get someone pregnant at some point.

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Speaking of ambiguities, think about what Noriko said about Tedd's ancestry and what Adrian said to her about Tedd--and that neither one mentioned Edward at all. The alternative paternity of Tedd would be a good thing to conceal from him for more than one reason.

Besides Grace's reflection looking like in Death Sentence, there's also Susan seeing the woman she caught her father cheating with in the mirror in the comic actually titled The Other Woman With Susan's Face. Maybe there's more than co-incidence that strange reflections in mirrors were featured in both comics. Or maybe we have one or two red herrings.

----

Scotty called me on this one. I wrote the original just before taking a nap, trusting my "infallible" memory. Which, come to think of it, could explain away Susan seeing the woman he caught cheating with her mom looking like herself.  Memory doesn't need magic to get things wrong.

But there's also the probably-fainter possibility that Noriko thinks Edward is Tedd's father because Noriko believes that Adrian can't be because "Elves can't have children." It's also possible know-it-all Edward knows that's disinformation, and knows to whom Heka's missing word applies.

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2 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

Speaking of ambiguities, think about what Noriko said about Tedd's ancestry and what Adrian said to her about Tedd--and that neither one mentioned Edward at all.

Noriko said "Between my bloodline and Edward's..." so yes, Edward was mentioned. However, considering Tara's and Andrea's reactions to Nanase and the explaination of royalty in their half of the world having the strongest magic of all the humans, it would be easy to think that royalty in their half has a more direct ancestry to Ancients and hasn't mixed nearly as much with the rest of the human population as on the prime half. Noriko seems to hint that her bloodline might also have been kept more pure by only hooking up with other's whom have strong magical bloodlines which seems to be the case with Edward, but it does seem more obvious that there's been more mixing at least in the last few hundred years which would account for more people having affinities.

I'm also going to put it out there that I'm wondering if the reason for more people having affinities isn't just being directly descended from Immortals and Humans having kids, but what if the act of marking someone also imprints them with a portion of an Immortal's being, not enough that if something were to happen to said Immortal that the people they've marked would die or something, but they're still carrying a bit of Immortal power that could get passed on to their offspring. This one is kinda hard to prove though as I don't know of a proper example. I originally thought Rhoda might be a candidate for someone who just yearned for the type of spell she got without having any prior connection to Magic, but considering her proficiency with magic in the "Escape from the Mall" NP, I'm thinking her bloodline already had strong ties to magic in the past and Pandora inadvertently reawakened it.

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3 hours ago, Scotty said:

It is still possible that as Adrian grew up, he might have knocked boots with a human or a few humans (not all at once dangit, one every few years or so) and got them pregnant without knowing it, one of those offspring could have had children of their own and eventually lead to Mr Pompoms who could have been Adrian's great great grandson and Adrian doesn't even know it.

Worse yet....

If Adrian has known, as a certainty, that he cannot have children....then what would he think if the lady he was in love with turned up pregnant?  I can just imagine the accusations and denials, the rejection and tears.  Adrian would think that someone he loved dearly had lied to him and betrayed him, and would react accordingly.  Imagine if Adrian finds out, now, that he was wrong?  That she had never betrayed him, and he had accused her and left her unjustly?  It was likely far too long ago to be able to go apologize now, so there's no closure, just bitter regret.  And I'm pretty sure he'll see it as all Pandora's fault.

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10 hours ago, chridd said:
11 hours ago, ijuin said:

(they apparently can't simply sleep with just any mortal human--either the human needs some particular attribute, or else some certain thing must be done to ensure offspring)

Do we actually know this?  From what I can remember, the only information we've gotten is that Mr. Raven says elves can't have children (and he might be wrong) (or he could be referring to a rule elves have to follow rather than lack of capability).  The only elf we know is Mr. Raven, and we know nothing about his sex life or lack thereof (and of course he could be infertile for other reasons, or have children that he doesn't know about, or for that matter have children that he does know about but have reason to lie about it).

Yes, only information we've got is Mr. Raven saying elves can't have children. We had no reason to assume he's wrong ... up until now. I would however assume he THINKS he's right.

4 hours ago, Entropy said:

Oh, my... If the word was realy "fairy", could it be that Tedd is Mr. Raven son? An affair would explain why Tedd dad don't like him anymore. Maybe he found them in bed. 

That could also be that the affair was after he was born, and the origin of the other child Not-Tengu talked about.

I don't think Noriko would have sex with Raven unless she KNEW she can get child that way, and she wouldn't lie to him about it, so no.

3 hours ago, Scotty said:

It is still possible that as Adrian grew up, he might have knocked boots with a human or a few humans (not all at once dangit, one every few years or so) and got them pregnant without knowing it, one of those offspring could have had children of their own and eventually lead to Mr Pompoms who could have been Adrian's great great grandson and Adrian doesn't even know it.

It could also be his son. Or it's misdirection and it's the other woman with Susan's face who's Raven daughter ...

2 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

As for the primordial ancestor of wizards et al?  I can think of a lot of possibilities, but none of them would seem likely to draw a cry heard in space from Pandora.

Not sure how you mean it, but I would say that fairies (or elves) are the ONLY possibility which would draw a cry like that from Pandora.

2 hours ago, Drasvin said:

I put quotes around genes, because I'm not sure if fairy magicalness would be passed on by actual DNA and genetics or by some other, possibly magical mechanism. If it is via actual genetics, then I would guess that affinities are dominant genes, as they're reliably passed down through families, and wizardry is recessive, because wizard linages are fairly rare, and you do have random wizards popping up at times.

Noriko's genes are reliable, others not so much. I would assume that affinity is not single gene. Either some magical mechanism, or multi-gene trait. Single gene trait would be too easy to track, also even dominant genes wouldn't likely be completely reliable ; based on how sure Noriko was about it, either it spreads more aggressively than normal magical genes, or her lineage always paired with other people with magic genes.

2 hours ago, Scotty said:
2 hours ago, Drasvin said:

The missing word is either 'fairy' (or an equivalent like 'elf') or Dan is setting up for one of the biggest misdirections in EGS history.

I didn't think that Andrea approaching Elliot at school was anything more than just a one time gag until Dan revealed there was more to it in "So a Date at the Mall".

But that wasn't active misdirection.

58 minutes ago, Scotty said:

I originally thought Rhoda might be a candidate for someone who just yearned for the type of spell she got without having any prior connection to Magic, but considering her proficiency with magic in the "Escape from the Mall" NP, I'm thinking her bloodline already had strong ties to magic in the past and Pandora inadvertently reawakened it.

Note that Pandora is unlikely to miss Rhoda having some affinity ... but maybe Rhoda had lot of magic genes, but was missing any specific affinity one, while Sarah has the affinity gene, but is missing some others. Meaning, Rhoda's child with Sarah would have strong affinity for scrying spells. (Presumably, Sarah would use her form from Grace's birthday party ... hey, is Bene Gesserit descended from shippers?)

Another question is Catalina: is her name-based affinity really just name-based affinity or does she also have some magic genes?

9 minutes ago, CritterKeeper said:

Worse yet....

If Adrian has known, as a certainty, that he cannot have children....then what would he think if the lady he was in love with turned up pregnant?  I can just imagine the accusations and denials, the rejection and tears.  Adrian would think that someone he loved dearly had lied to him and betrayed him, and would react accordingly.  Imagine if Adrian finds out, now, that he was wrong?  That she had never betrayed him, and he had accused her and left her unjustly?  It was likely far too long ago to be able to go apologize now, so there's no closure, just bitter regret.  And I'm pretty sure he'll see it as all Pandora's fault.

... it's likely far too long ago to apologize, as she's already dead and so is her child, yes ... of course Raven can apologize to Susan and Diane but that's not the same ...

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"Wizards, seers, those with magical abilities..."  NOT all magic users.  Just those with something inborn. 

Probably those like Nanase with a lot of natural magic energy as well.  I'd speculate that inborn magic power "S-Rank talent" if you will, is what the griffins saw as "royalty".

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7 minutes ago, CritterKeeper said:

 And I'm pretty sure he'll see it as all Pandora's fault.

Yeah, but if the lie about Elves not being able to have children goes back several immortal lifetimes and applies to all Immortals having told themselves that. Then is certainly more complication and Pandora can't really be to blame can she? If it was the decision of all Immortals to lie about it, then there would have been a reason to do so, maybe the same reason they agreed to stick to the "only guide and empower" rules, it wouldn't be breaking Immortal law to fall in love with a human and have an elf child, but if they believe that elves are sterile, and the elves are convinced they are as well...hmm that does sound like something that could easily backfire though, tell a person their sterile and they're probably more likely to go around having unprotected sex with others with the belief there'd be no consequences. How the heck would a lie like that have any benefit?

16 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

It could also be his son. Or it's misdirection and it's the other woman with Susan's face who's Raven daughter ...

That would imply that the other woman is Diane's biological mother which would still make Susan and Diane half sisters and would fit the reason why Diane was adopted, but Susan wouldn't be related to Adrian, just Diane. With Mr Pompoms being related to Adrian, then both Susan and Diane could be as well.

23 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

But that wasn't active misdirection.

Yeah, the only reasoning we got for Dan having a Griffin in that comic was "Griffins are Rad" where as in the case Grace looking like Susan, we have Dan flip-flopping on it inspiring some sort of convoluted plot twist.

I consider both forms of teasing though, the griffin was more of a "say little and let the visual speak for itself" kind of tease which I'll admit, after "So a Date at the Mall" revealing that there was a reason for the griffin's (who we now know was Andrea) appearance, has me looking at anything that seems out of place as a potential foreshadowing. Then you have moments where Dan's like dances around the subject and whether or not it's relevant to anything to the point where you may think "Nah he's just messing with it" but one can't be so sure. Today's commentary starts with "I'm sure however that sentence ended wasn't at all important. " which is a blatant and intentional lie as there's just no way he could be vague about it.

39 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Another question is Catalina: is her name-based affinity really just name-based affinity or does she also have some magic genes?

It's possible that Catalina had potential for magic due to her ancestry having had magic, but any chance for getting a natural affinity from them was overwritten when she was named at birth. Dan's stated that Name based affinities are affinities given at or soon after birth, so I'd say it's both, but again, it's difficult to find someone that has no magical ancestry to compare this to, it would seem like if Magic users are descended from Immortal/Fairy and Human interaction, then it's possible the entire human population is contaminated by now.

9 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

"Wizards, seers, those with magical abilities..."  NOT all magic users.  Just those with something inborn. 

Probably those like Nanase with a lot of natural magic energy as well.  I'd speculate that inborn magic power "S-Rank talent" if you will, is what the griffins saw as "royalty".

Like I said before, Nanase's family could have maintain magical purity by marrying into other magically pure families. But we do know that royalty doesn't always stick to royalty and there've been kings that were known for having affairs with servants, and children resulting from that would carry on the magical bloodline through their offspring which would lead to even the lower classes developing magic users.

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Odd speculation: 1st-generation elves can only have children with each other (and, nowadays, they are rare - and have only been told that they can't have children, so they don't seek each other out for the purpose). But when a pair of elves have a child, there is some chance that the child will be able to have children with pure-humans.

Odd speculation #2: it used to be that elves could crossbreed freely with humans, but that was taken away in some previous magic reset. Because things were getting to the point that magic use was commonplace. Those with "too much" fairy ancestry became sterile - but some small amount was allowed, so there would be apparently-human magic-users.

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1 minute ago, Don Edwards said:

Odd speculation: 1st-generation elves can only have children with each other (and, nowadays, they are rare - and have only been told that they can't have children, so they don't seek each other out for the purpose). But when a pair of elves have a child, there is some chance that the child will be able to have children with pure-humans.

Odd speculation #2: it used to be that elves could crossbreed freely with humans, but that was taken away in some previous magic reset.

Nothing is known to be impossible for magic except time travel.  Ergo babymaking is on the table for elves if they want kids badly enough.

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24 minutes ago, Scotty said:

it's difficult to find someone that has no magical ancestry to compare this to, it would seem like if Magic users are descended from Immortal/Fairy and Human interaction, then it's possible the entire human population is contaminated by now.

Possible, but not guaranteed. We have a few examples of people that have neither an innate affinity or are a wizard. Such as Elliot. He has mostly girl-based spells, but that's due to the manner of his awakening. While it is possible for someone to be of a lineage that includes wizards and not be a wizard, like Nanase, she still had a detectible aspect to her aura, that the griffins recognized as a mark of royalty in their world.

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